Map Discussion.

[Rogan]

VIP mod would be great if they remade the old maps properly. the custom VIP maps are pretty awful and i get the feeling most of them are included because they are the only ones available. The only VIP map I can see making it onto the cycle so far is oilrig, all the others are pretty poor either overcomplicated or overly simple (take as_crisis and as_arctic as examples of this)

Incidentally this is maybe the 5th time in the past 18 months that the server has *died* (it's by no means the worst either) and it always happens when the map list becomes filled with maps to download. Most regs need to understand that people like playing dust1, dust2, italy, and aztec. No matter how bored you are of the core maps that's what people enjoy playing.

There is also an argument for removing everything that needs to be downloaded on join, but mneh, zombie brings in new players.

[The_Eliminator]

Ooh, i didnt realise that there were special maps for VIP, i thought you could connect the mod with any map like the Zombie mod. So if the server was being kept afloat by the customs why have they been removed for a full rotation? There was a time when the server was permanently full, cant we just go back to whatever it was then?

[Rogan]

No we can't go back in time I'm afraid. We can only concentrate on the things we've always had, firm admins, mature regulars, and some skilled players. The reason we haven't been holding players is because we've fidled the list too many times and not removed the borderline maps. We used to be able to hold players running any (OFFICIAL) map. Of course, that was before we banned everyone. ^_^

[Kittenbait]

Ah, we banned everyone who deserved it. And I seem to remember accidetally banning a few who didn't but they got swiftly reinstated.

It's possible some drop-off merely occurs because people get tired of CSS and move on to other games, coming back more rarely. Hell, with Elder Scrolls: Oblivion, Heroes of Might and Magic 5, Conquest Of The Aegean, SiN 2 and HL: Aftermath all coming out within about a month of each other, I might be on much less for a while myself.

[The_Eliminator]

lol Then the answer is simple, create a list that has no borderline maps, or a list with varied good maps and not so good maps (like the list produced) and then keep it as that. Once that has been done you could create an email or get a space on a well known CSS website and advertise the site, this would bring in people, although the advertising on a site may cost a small fee every month but i am sure we could all chip in a bit. if you wanted i could create a flyer advertising the server and send it to some of my other CSS friends and ask them to send on to theirs.

[Rogan]

The best way to get players is to be seen at the top of a serverlist when rated by players or by ping. We're still at the top for ping.

[The_Eliminator]

What about the idea of advertising the server?

[Rogan]

No one's interested in an advertised server. Anyway, I've already advertised it this month.

[The_Eliminator]

There has to be ways to bring new people to the server? Im still not really sure about why the customs have been removed, if they were keeping the server afloat isnt it best to keep a few on, even if it is only 1 or 2?

[daleeboy]

The games thing may have a point, i see myself dropping off a little in attendance when Oblivion is released,

Also ive seen on other servers, this was months ago when i actually could be bothered with other servers, the ratemap function, would this be any uuse on server for a while, just to see where people feeling lie?

Dale

[Kittenbait]

Isn't, that, er, a little paradoxical, Rogz?

I think it'll be fine on a limited map rotation for now. We've chopped and changed it for a while, and it causes a) plenty of admin work, and b) disruption. Continuity has its benefits: like football, no team that has four managers in a season is likely to do well.

We wait a week or three. If it works bringing people back, we can think about gently feeding the middling popularity maps back in once the server population looks recovered. If it doesn't work bringing people back in, we can add some of the middling popularity maps, as it might be the limited rotation. If lots of people complain, we can add some of the middling popularity maps to satisfy them.

[Number 6]

Imo, we should not get zombie horde back on the server as today when I got in there were at least 5 already playing on the server. I joined after looking on the website and soon after more people joined and we ended up having about 20 on the server and imo this is due to zombie not being on. Another option would be to cut down the amount of time Zombie is on?

[Rogan]

Plenty of edits in this post: I'm saving post 1337 for some pwnage spam.

Is there a way of changing the amount of time spent on different maps? Or is that just over complicating things? :$

Yes you can, but how long is too long? The server is currently playing 18 min maps and the winlimit has been removed.

Isn't, that, er, a little paradoxical, Rogz?

Real life is all about paradox KB, you know that. Actually I had already advertised the server; I was talking about the VIP mod being a step in the right direction or something.

We wait a week or three. If it works bringing people back, we can think about gently feeding the middling popularity maps back in once the server population looks recovered.

The population will 'recover' in less than a week I expect. The problem is a lack of unity on what the server should be playing. You're very correct about the changes and I think that we need to decide no what goes on the server. I also think that weekdays should be treated as a kind of low tide and we should make sure the maplist is popular during those times. [size=7]During the weekend I think there is leeway for the odd custom map etc, but anything other than core maps will send people packing. I'm sure that no one wants to spend thier 2 hours of gaming time on a tuesday getting low fps on chateau or camping on assault.

[edit]I think adding some of the more interesting maps would help. Has anyone got any suggestions? I'll be putting the decent version of oilrig back on *ahem*. Oh look cavey says galleria and losttemple.

Imo, we should not get zombie horde back on the server as today when I got in there were at least 5 already playing on the server.

mm, ok done.

Also ive seen on other servers, this was months ago when i actually could be bothered with other servers, the ratemap function, would this be any uuse on server for a while, just to see where people feeling lie?

Sounds like a good idea.

Full rotation implies everything, but unfortunately valve do make some shit maps. of the 18 official maps, only 2 or 3 will really empty the server, tides, havana and assault .
I dont think the problem is having customs, i think its having too many, and not giving the server enough time to fill up between customs. taking out the worst 2 or 3 of the official maps and replacing them with the best of the customs would keep people happy, and add a little variety into the mapcycle. its would give the server enough time to fill up if the customs empty it, which i doubt 2 or 3 would if they were well spread out.
I understand that customs will empty the server, and the news post says no customs, but so will crap officials, and keeping the number of maps up will stop it getting boring playing the same maps again and again. good customs which quite a lot of people will play are galleria and losttemple.

I've added galleria and lost temple to the list. I think you're right, the server needs just a little zing; we should only add the best. It only took three days to convice me that time: getting faster!

We do need one more custom map, and (you'll like this) it must be a VIP map! Although I quite like the large maps, I have to admit they are all daft mazes. We need a decently balanced map, such as I remember as_tundra being. Actually now that I *really* come to think of it are there any decently balanced as_maps other than oilrig?

Well, I think we need a 'backbone' of the most popular maps, which I reckon are:

Italy, Dust2, Office, Aztec, Dust

I reckon the second tier maps are:

Inferno, Piranesi, Cbble, Nuke, Militia, Train, Port (Compound)?, Havana, Chateau, Prodigy

I think the third tier turn-offs are:

Tides, Compound (Port?), Assault.

There are two suggestions that come to mind.

My first is to go for an official only rotation of 15, each spine map sandwiching two second tiers. We might (if we decide to stick with custom maps) exchange the odd second tier for a good custom.

My second is a rotation of 20, each spine map sandwiching 3 maps: those 3 comprising 2 second tier and 1 other (either custom or a third tier).

How about a rotation of 12 for the moment:

cs_office 1
de_cbble 2
css_galleria3
de_dust 1
de_piranesi 2
cs_italy 1
as_oilrig 3
de_aztec 1
cs_compound 2
de_losttemple 3
de_prodigy 2
de_dust2 1

That's the best I can come up with. I've used the good customs, and the only as_map, as tier 3 maps. taking into my earlier post that was talking about flawed maps. Stoofer: should you read this, I exclude compound from this definition. Instead I'm talking about unplayable buggyness (HDR), dirty fps (inferno), nasty balance (assault).

I think few people look beyond the next map. I'd like to think that someone might check the list and sit through a 3rd tier/custom in the knowledge that a great map is next on, but I suspect they'll just check 'nextmap' as one ends and make their decision accordingly.

Any thoughts?

I agree with the darker view, imo few people use the listmaps command. I think my propoed list would work with this view, though. I think the selection is good but the order may need a touch of work. I'm buffering pira between dust and italy; oilrig between italy and aztec, and dust2 goes right into office atm, so there is room to add more maps. I think we should use this as a 'popular' cycle for the time being, though.

So then why have the customs been removed? when you say keeping the server afloat, has it been in real danger of sinking then? What about the VIP mod?

See above.

[daleeboy]

Not sure where to post this, but thort id try here.

Whats with the autochange teams function. Dont mind being swapped if it makes game even, thats fine. But it counts as a suicide, you lose a kill and gain a death. Finished a round as a CT by shootin last two T's and had a 4-1 record, got autoswitched, and ended 3-2. Can anything be done about this? Also it seems very random who it swaps, was playin a map as a T snd we were losing 5-0, but i was in second place with quite a few more kills than third place. Got autoswitched, onto CT side. So T's are loosing badly and it takes away one of players who was actually doing well for T's. Is it just completly random?

Dale

[Kittenbait]

You need to be quick on autochange, keep an eye out for it. You've got a few seconds a the end of a round to quickly choose a model.

I like it with the constant autobalance. Otherwise when a team is getting owned, they not only are probably a weaker team but they perpetually end up outnumbered because people leave and those from the winning team are unwilling to fill the places. The old autobalance system meant I used to have to manually switch people, and it was a right pain as it could get me killed while typing or I could just not have time to do it.